Thoughts on Jospeh Campbell's Thoughts
It seems that his work carries the message that I have only been starting to realize and trying to puzzle out on my own. There are so many things that he says that are so much truth to me, but I want people who are interested to look into it for themselves. So here is just a taste and I hope I do it some justice:
Myths/religions serve four purposes:
1. To give a sense of wonder regarding all of the unanswerables.
2. To help humans come to grips with the brutal nature of life by accounting for/mystifying/explaining all of the things which we must do.
3. To guide us through the psychological milestones we experience through life (rites of passage, etc).
4. To provide a society with rules of conduct and a sense of morality.
(I am trying to recall from memory, but I am pretty sure that is about it).
"Dreams are personalized myth and myths are depersonalized dreams."
He believes that dreams are a person's way of sorting out what goes on in their lives (as Freud and Jung), but also believes that those dreams can and have been carried into a culture's public realm to become their mythos. As I have studied some small level of American Indian philosophy, I see that notion very, very evident in their mytic culture. Just reading "Black Elk Speaks," one can find many examples of the vision made manifest to help them understand what they were experiencing and how to get through it.
Campbell also believes that the shamans of the past possessed a type of schizophrenia, but were given a special place in their society for their ability to dream and interpret myths from them for the betterment of their culture. They were honored, not committed.
I still have many questions, but there is so much more to his work. I am only one book, four lectures and two documentaries into it so far.
One, hmm... uncomfortable(?) part about my affinity for and agreement with his work is that I seem to be growing both closer and more distant to religious people. On one hand, I understand better how they find answers to questions within the writings of their chosen perspective... but on the other hand, I feel even more distant from those who view it as... well, as gospel.
Did Jesus exist? It doesn't really matter, I suppose. Buddhas? Doesn't matter. If the guidance one gets helps them get through this world and helps make it better, cool.
Campbell seems to say, though, that our understanding of science creates too many inconsistencies with old mythologies/religions; that new myths must be made which can account for modern scientific understanding. But considering the very nature of myth, how can one form a modern mythos for today's people? If myth is metaphor, must it be believeable as fact and put through the scrutiny of the scientific method? I suppose for some people it does and others it doesn't. I read the Celestine Prophecy a number of years ago and was very upset knowing that it was fiction as I was reading it. I was upset that they were trying to convince us of phenomena through an entirely fabricated story. At that point, I thought that it would be better to tell of the wonder of our world through true stories. I still kind of believe that, but see the power of narrative to emphasize things that create wonder in this world.
Anyaway, something to dwell on for hours as I drive around campus.
More to come for sure.
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5 Comments:
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What I like best about Joseph Campbell is how you can ask him an enormously complicated question like "What is the meaning of life?" and he'll answer, without skipping a beat and and without conceit, as though you asked him to cook spaghetti: "Well, first you have to boil water, of course. Then you add the pasta . . . "
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Myths, for me, are myths largely because they are old. So the idea of new myths is interesting. I recently read Expecting Adam by Martha Beck. Though I hadn't considered it at the time, it is like a new myth. It is a true story, yet contains many magical and impossible events that encourage wonder, yet also undoubtedly invite skipticism.
Was metaphor ever inteded to be fact? I always felt it was a vehicle to bring your mind to a different/higher understanding of a matter.
, at 5/07/2006 12:58 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts.
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Dwellings, by Linda Hogan has the same feeling. It is a short book about our connection with and the wonder of the natural world. The things which happened to her are very hard to write off as coincidence... as long as you believe her.
But you are right, by nature metaphor isn't factual and therefore by Campbell's vision, neither is myth.
But can metaphor and myth be a story of actual events...
and will it carry a more resounding message today if so?
I wonder if the story of Malcolm X's trip to Mecca and resulting new perceptions have a stronger connection with the greater public than a story that involves a fox and sparrow's trip to the sun?
The answer may be in that Malcolm's story has faded and been for the most part forgotten or given no attention. Yet most people know stories such as Dr. Seuss's Lorax and the little engine that could. But the latter are viewed as a naive children's tales whereas Malcom's story is real. Where does the disconnect come from?
I look at Campbell's examples and many of them involve real places and possibly real people. Much of the Greek myths involve events that very likely happened, but things such as divine intervention, trips to the underworld, and children born of the union of human and animal make them unbelievable and therefore would likely be quickly dismissed today.
Maybe a better question is: What are or should be modern myths? I think that Harry Potter is the closest thing, but I am sad to hear the message that it carries if so. It is: Don't worry if you are downtrodden. You might have famous dead parents who left you gobs of money and there may be a fantasy world if you can find the right train where you will be a great wizard, not by your own merit, but because your blood flows with the power of great people.
Ick.
Sorry, my dislike for the Potter myth is showing again. But I haven't read the books, just seen the movies.
But I ramble. What are your thoughs on possible myths and themes that might carry universal values?
Ian, at 5/08/2006 11:55 AM
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Hi Ian. I forgot to post my name the first time I commented. I'll think about what you wrote and get back to you--after my psychology final, that is.
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Be well,
Katie , at 5/08/2006 12:28 PM
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I'm surprised you don't dig Harry Potter. What's interesting is that Harry isn't actually a great wizzard. He's not the best student, no superior at performing magic--he often has help, as he did in the latest movie. Secondly, you'll more often notice that his fame and bank account embarrass him. And as for living in a fantasy world, he doesn't. He's a kid and has to deal with the harsh reality that people want to kill him . . .
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The thing about modern myths, is do people care? I'd venture that the modern myths people are most invested in are those in the pages of People Magazine. Celebrities have certainly taken on mythic proportions. My other thought is urban legends, though not as much.
Another thought is that humans are always evolving. While there were certainly highly educated people living in ancient times, think of the education levels of the entire population today versus thousands of years ago. Do we need myths today? That's a good question. Religion gets tied up in the matter as well. Think of all the people today who are still invested in the myths of the Hebrew Scriptures. I'm guessing those folks are not wanting for new myths--the Bible has already been written and do they want to look beyond it?
In my experiences with energy healing, there are folks who believe we're evolving out of homosapiens and into homospiritus. I've been told that my energy anatomy has already begun to alter in small ways. Perhaps we are growing out of the need for myths because we have reached a higher spiritual level? Or perhaps, in the cycle of life, we will begin to move towards the power of myth once again?
Katie , at 5/14/2006 1:30 PM
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Thanks always for the comments and thoughts. I am really glad that you are willing to share them and at times challenge me. It is welcome and needed.
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Most of my Potter experience comes from the movies, so there may be elements about it that I am missing. I always contrast it with the Lord of the Rings series (though they are altogether very different stories) and see the hobbits as plain people who help to save the world by their humanity (well, hobbitity) not because of what has been given them. A story that emphasizes that often, things which people perceive to give them power are what bring them down. That it is the power within yourselves, and the power of friendship and willpower, and common cause. O.K. I will move along... Or maybe I just relate to the abundance of hair on their feet.
I share your wonder about whether people would care about a new mythology. I think it depends on how it is told and how the messge is carried. If they were told it was meant to be a lesson for them to learn, I think it would be rejected at once. People as a whole, don't like to be convinced. They want to be reinforced in what they already believe. I think that today, people would rather follow someone who does something they view as great than someone who says something great. I blame politics :) This is especailly true when it comes to religion. Campbell talks about how the reasons there are so many factions and fractures within most modern Western religion is because that mythology cannot account for the intellectual (r)evolution over the past couple of millenia. Though some of the message still resonates, much of it is dischordant in its inability to come to terms with modern thought/knowledge/society. But again, people are often unwilling to detatch from something they have been so attached to... Or maybe it is just that they are right and Campbell is wrong.
I think your notion of human evolution is intriguing. There is seemingly evidence for such a movement of humanity — both in spirit as well as thought. I think because we have essentially taken ourselves out of most physical evolution, fitness is possibly determined by spirit and intellect... and, well, money. Because those are things that are not genetically passed, must evolution be conducted within one's own lifetime? Or maybe the evolution comes from parent to child through teaching of experience. Man, that is a worth its own discussion... I am definitely open to talk about and explore it.
Back to the core of this conversation: I appreciate your question as to whether there is a need for myth. I think so.
I look around and see a ship with its sails flailing about and sense that if the whole crew doesn't get together and start lashing things down and aiming the boat in accordance with the wind, people are going to continue to get whipped about and thrown overboard. People will survive, even if tossed into the waves or knocked about the spars below-decks, but unnecessarily so.
I reiterate that we really are "all on the same boat" metaphor and that we could actually guide ourselves somewhere had we a common sense of direction instead of flailing about in the same patch of sea.
A direction found independantly within each of us by our connection to the greater mythos.So we would all know our place on the boat by seeing how we relate to the whole - by knowing ourselves.
So how, if one could be made, could that be done and how to communicate it? That I will chat with you about via e-mail, Katie. Ian, at 5/15/2006 10:05 PM
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